i spent two nights on the rhine talking to islamists hitchhiking to mecca
and lived to tell the tale.
Two years ago on the way to santiago i was in basel and was looking for a place to set up my tent along the banks of the rhein when i ran into four men cooking noodles on the massive concrete bank of the river. We started talking and they offered me some food and it turns out they were mulsims hitchhiking to mecca. Men in their mid twenties, maybe one or two was about thirty. And here I was, a christian pilgrim going the other direction. In any case we spent two nights talking about God looking out over the rhine. They were islamists, and after I recovered from the dissapointment that they werent going to kill me, we had a wonderful conversation.
The men came from belgium, three out of the four were of turkish or arabic descent, one was of european descent. They were of the same intellectual bent as I in the sense that they wanted to convert me. Not without understanding first, but the conversation was fun because we both thought something was at stake, and both respected the sincerity of the other persons faith. The majority of the conversation was between myself and the most learned or devout of the bunch, a man named elias. I have had the chance to ask muslims the questions that sort of bubble up beneath the surface of consciousness when reading about a topic and then rest there waiting for the first reasonable person who could actually speak to them from the point of view of a true believer. there is no substitute for talking with true believers, you can only learn from them, so it was exciting to me. Ive spoken to muslms before but never to islamists. And to me islamists are the most interesting kinds. Elias didnt disappoint.
One of their first critiques to me of christiantiy was that muslims are clearly more devout than christians in europe at least. They saw a sacreligous painting of Jesus in Basel and wondered how any christian would put up with that. I didnt see the painting but I ceeded the point. Muslims are more devout. Its something ive learned in homeless shelters all throughout europe which, particularly in france give a muslims summer camp for adults sorta feel. with men rolling out their carpets at 5am to pray. Im supposed to be some sort of religious zealot and im not praying at 5am. Doesnt this suggest that the muslim God is real? if muslims are more devout? Again, I grant the point. yes its a srrong argument in their favor. Then why dont I believe? they asked. I gave what seemed to be the three most obvious arguments to me why islam is false. 1. Mohammed married an 9 year old girl. 2. Mohammed was a warlord. 3. And—!!Islamist special!!—Killing people for coverting away from the faith is a sign its not true because the truth and freedom go together.
Their response was to excuse the first because times were different and women matured younger then, or so they said. 9 years old! To point two: for these men, being a Warlord was a positive and Jesus Christ suffering and dying was unbecoming of a great man, let alone an Incarnation of God. On murdering those who convert to other religions, they doubled down: unbelief is a cancer and should be rooted out. It was so cool to talk to people who actually believe this stuff!
Running out of reasons to convert me or at least tiring of arguing and admitting some of the previous points were non starters for me. They took another tact: realizing I am a spiritual man, they saw me in poverty and silly clothes and without wife and wanted to make it known how islam treats its spiritual men. the pitch was that i go to the desert in north africa where scholars study the koran day and night. i could wear fine garmets, have many plump wives with black bags over thier heads. they labored on this final point. get behind me satan! the many wives thing has never been appealing. one’s enough. yet if they knew my weak spots they should have pitched becoming an isis or taliban warlord.
This did segway nicely into a conversation about heaven and why exactly the muslim wet-dream-77-virgin heaven should be taken seriously—my boys cant wait! haha— and arguments that heaven without sex would be better, of a higher grade of spirituality and more plausible werent really tracking with team mecca. some aspects of islam are refreshing in their brut carnal simplicity.
These conversations went on for hours but i tercely relay them here. Im not so far from a wannabe catholic jihadist myself, if Im hoping for more of a semiotic sort of violence, the wish for radicality and a break from materialism is the same. i felt much more in common with these men than most catholics.
i asked them what they wanted to get out of the pilgrimage and they were honest about their struggles. Its hard to be faithful in this time, they said, they wanted strength, consolation, renewed vigor. We had a fascinating argument about demons and exorcism in both traditions. They also read and chanted koranic verses in arabic. they were almost like protestants obsessed with the fact the koran is authentic and they saw the linguistic polyvalence of the bible as deeply unappealing, almost a proof christianity is false. by reading the koran in arabic they had 100% certainty they were coming in direct contact with the words of thier prophet.
They then turned to ask me some of their questions for a catholic. Elias finally came to the point about why become catholic out of all the other christian options. I told him basically because the Pope has been given power to rule over the Church by God and thus all need to obey him. Elias demurred. “Youre going to hate what we have to say now, but we think the pope is a globalist, satanist, who promotes homosexuality.” You could tell in how they delivered this that they were braced for strong opposition. And they were shocked when I could only concur. I dont know about the satanist part but they could back up the other claims with evidence and strong evidence at least for the final claim which disgusted them. Elias ran it by me one more time, “so let me see if I am getting this straight, the only reason to become catholic as opposed to orthodox is to submit to the pope, and the pope is a globalist, satanist, who promotes homosexuality, am I getting this right?” “Yup, thats pretty much it.” I say. I have no energy to push back on these claims at this point as I, more than anyone know at least claim 1 and 3 are true. And dont have the courage to nit pick about claim 2.
I explained a little of the cassiacum thesis but its moments like these where you just have to take the loss, its so pathetic, I can give a explanation but its so strange I cant expect others to find it compelling because its not. Its just awful when your life stops making sense at such a basic level. I was thankful for Elias for reminding me. I didnt back away from trying to convince him on other fronts, I gave him many of other reasons to convert to catholicism. But he honed in on this most basic contradiction, and absurdity. And rightfully so. But he was shocked by my readiness to give ground, something he didnt really have the same capacity for as regards his own faith. He didnt give points to the other side as readily as I did. the fruit of this is that they closed saying they could see i loved the truth, and they thought that would eventually lead me to islam. Afterward I did start to pray for elias, i had a similar respect for him. He was serious about God, about worship, which is exactly what he had complimented me about. Elias would make a great catholic! He thought Id be a good muslim. But the argument is so weak right now, if he were a christian he could let the sacriledge he saw at an art museum stand, the fact basel is home to thousands of christians and no one case is too much for him, he cant take the religion seriously and I get it. For elias, it would take a miracle. There are so many cases of this, of muslims converting, few seem to come from youtube arguments but many from supernatural intervention.
It was a wonderful time in any case they were very generous feeding me and genuinely thought the idea of living in total dependence on God was worthy of respect. And this only made them want to bring me to their side even more. I loved this. There was a truly fraternal spirit guiding our conversations. And how wild to run into three jihadists on the way to mecca, as I was walking to santiago.
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Maybe God was testing you or maybe they were demons:) I had my runs with demons so although I am not an expert I know they can be deceitful. Anyway I always think that if God allows it probably he trust I will be savvy to put up with them, not that I call on them or have anything to do with them, they messed up with me because I was defending spiritually one of my sons who was opening portals during his years at the Uni, but he was into new Age (that girlfriend he had) and hallucinogens, he was experimenting a lot. The experiences were very awful and I do not share this lightly because few people are strong enough or without fear, but I can see that you are are strong in your faith and have some knowledge of the spiritual world. Without irony I can say that these "inter-dimensional spirits" got me closer to the Father not the opposite, they also show me the feeling of hell, and it was for few seconds if not I would died right there, It is total despair, but it cannot be described with humans words the closer I can say is that I experienced a place without hope, and it is horrible! In the other hand I realized that this realm is plenty of hope, hope is everywhere and hope and love holds the world still. After those experiences and another paranormal phenomena in the house and also my husband experiences strange occurrences we looked for Father more, because who is the only one these spirits respect?? Only the true God, not Allah, not the jesus of the mormons, neither any jewish sect on existence, etc. Who is the one that Lucifer has to obey and bow in His present not for his own accord but because is what it is. I never really understood how Lucifer being so powerful and smart thought that he could go against God and being an angel he knew more about God than we do. Another question I have for Father or Jesus when I finally meet them, I have so many questions! My best friend is a muslim but a losy one, she doesn't know much about it and she believes like the pope that all religions are path to God, I used to be an universalist too but then I was thinking about it and wonder why Jesus came to show us the truth and went through all that horror of the Crucifixion to make what point, exactly? was He a masochist? I do not believe so. Or we are the only real religion or we are not a religion but the path to the fther and eternal life. I would have many arguments to tell these islamists but I never had the pleasure to meet any, only one in Switzerland in Pilatus peak. he did the 5 pm prayer and kneel and I stood up on his side, took out my Rosary and started to pray to. We have rights, so the guy left after a minute. One of the things I always clarified when they say these truths, that they are very confused about christians, it is truth that specially catholics do not pray enough or know enough of anything, the church of the last 100 years but they are not really christians only in name or because they are in Europe and Europe was created under Christendom but people are not christians if they dont pray or go to mass or live the commandments, they are not, i don't care how they perceive themselves. I am always assertive in these clarifications with other "religions". I wasn't a christian less a catholic so I never said that until I was sure that I would die for it, but people who knew me in my youth and my years of debauchery would have said so that I was a catholic but that "I didn't practice the faith". It is laughable really, how I am a catholic if I do not practice the faith? What it is to be a catholic? It looks like is like a nobility title for the most part. Be accurate is very important in these times of confusion, neither I dare to say I am catholic, I say "I am in the process to be one" just in case my behavior doesn't reflect that. I wouldn't dare to stain my faith, probably I should say I am a practicing catholic but not a good one or still in process. That is why people like you in the streets are important, you are where is need it, in contact with others. Jesus was scold because he sat with the sinners but where else he would be? It has sense. We don't convert Father does, but you saw maybe a seed in some of the islamists (why you called them that and not muslim), probably they are easy to convert that some Protestants or jewish people. Who knows, you are there puting the good word in the Lord's behave so continue and God bless you!!
Brilliant story Stephen! Thank you for sharing.